Happy Guy :)

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Posts by Happy Guy :)

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  10

  Information please JW & murder

  by aniron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  i seem to recall a case where a jw was discovered to have been wanted for murder in another state and the elders of the congregation wrote to brooklyn asking what to do.

  i believe theres a copy of the reply from brooklyn.. does anyone know where i can find it.

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  Happy Guy :)

  This letter can also be found at the silent lambs website candidly. I am told it is authentic.
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  33

  In Watchtower World---What Do You Think The Society Thinks of JWD???

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you think they "know" us?

  do you think the service department looks here to find out how to write the next watchtower??

  ?

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  Happy Guy :)

  JWD is living proof that JWs can leave the cult and still live a happy life with loving kind words of support for each other. I believe the WT hates you. You are living proof that they lie.
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  19

  Words JWs--and ex-JWs--use :)

  by bebu in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  (preface: i have never been a jw.

  i notice words and phrases that strike me really odd, used by jws, and even by members on this board.

  one that comes readily to mind is the use of the words one or ones when referring to people.

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  Happy Guy :)

  I used to find the JW invented words or JW buzzwords annoying and I guess I still do to a certain degree. With the growth of the internet we have seen many non JW buzzwords or phrases that have become popular and mainstream like "downtime" or "online". So I think I am becoming much more insensitive to the use of buzzwords.

  I can't remember where I read this first, it may have been in Jim Penton's book, he referred to it as "doublespeak" (if my memory serves correct). I think for many ex JWs, continuing to use these JW buzzwords serves as a common frame of referrence even if many ex JWs would themselves prefer to discontinue using them. When an ex JW uses a JW terminology we (we meaning those familiar with the terminology) can easily identify what situation they are trying to describe.
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  19

  Words JWs--and ex-JWs--use :)

  by bebu in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  (preface: i have never been a jw.

  i notice words and phrases that strike me really odd, used by jws, and even by members on this board.

  one that comes readily to mind is the use of the words one or ones when referring to people.

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  Happy Guy :)

  oops double clicked my post.
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  20

  What if potential convert sat in back of K.H. and talked w/ shunned j.w.'s?

  by hubert in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been hearing a lot about shunned j.w.

  's having to sit in the back of the kingdom halls when they go to meetings.. so, what would happen if a new bible study person went to the kingdom hall for sunday meeting, (or whatever) and sat in the back of the hall, and talked to the shunned j.w.'s?

  also, are there always shunned j.w.

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  Happy Guy :)

  Unbaptised persons are not Disassociated. The only "punishment" they can receive is that they might be announced as no longer being an "Unbaptised Publisher", assuming they even were a publisher. Likewise, they cannot be Public Reproved, probably not privately either.

  I have never heard of an announcement being made that someone DF'd would be attending, or that they needed permission from the elders first.

  Thank you for your comments. It looks as though things may be a little different in the U.S. as compared with this part of Canada. I assure you my ex was unbaptised and was in fact Privately Reproved. I also was in attendance at a few meetings at one particular congregation where a Disfellowshipped person was attending. Not only was an announcement made that they were attending but it was made known that this person had to be given permission by the elders.
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  13

  The WTBTS Lies On Their Website

  by Corvin in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the following is taken from the wtbts's official website: http://www.jw-media.org/beliefs/society.htmrelationship to society.

  jehovah's witnesses are found at all levels of society, and they do not physically separate themselves from those who do not share their beliefs.

  they live, work, and go to school with people of different religious beliefs, and they enjoy cordial relationships with them.

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  Happy Guy :)

  I guess they have to resort to some false advertising since thier getting bad press. One thing I always found curious is that many JWs I knew would lie to people about what they believed or practiced; as though they were ashamed or embarassed of it. I guess this is a case of the Watchtower now doing it. I guess this means they too are now embarassed or ashamed of thier beliefs.
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  20

  What if potential convert sat in back of K.H. and talked w/ shunned j.w.'s?

  by hubert in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been hearing a lot about shunned j.w.

  's having to sit in the back of the kingdom halls when they go to meetings.. so, what would happen if a new bible study person went to the kingdom hall for sunday meeting, (or whatever) and sat in the back of the hall, and talked to the shunned j.w.'s?

  also, are there always shunned j.w.

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  Happy Guy :)

  I can't say if it is common. It is a method I noticed was used more often on members who are not baptized and are "falling away from the truth". My ex-wife was one such example. I had surmised that the reason it is used more often with unbaptised persons is probably from a statistical point of view they tended to "fall away form the truth" more often or more easily then baptised persons.

  One other thing I noticed is that anytime an individual who Disfellowshipped (an ousting punishment given to baptised persons) or Disassociated (an ousting punishment given to unbaptised persons) came to a meeting (with permission from the elders), it was usually made known to the congregants that this person was attending and would be segregated.

  When a person (whether baptised or not) who was under Public Reproof it was announced to the congregants. The difference between the Reprooving and Df'ing or Da'ing is that with the two latter instances the congregants would avoid all contact. Conversation was left to the elders. With the Reprooving conversation was permitted but minimized. With the Private Reprooving the congregants would likely be unaware that the person was being punished. It was left to this individual to segregate themselves where possible unitl the elders felt they were "strong in the truth" again.

  I have no idea how rare this last case is. I suspect in the case of my ex she should have been Disassociated or at least Publicly Reprooved (an embarrassment at the least in front of your peers) but she was of the "JW Aristocracy" so she was able to escape the type of punishment which would normally be applied.
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  20

  What if potential convert sat in back of K.H. and talked w/ shunned j.w.'s?

  by hubert in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been hearing a lot about shunned j.w.

  's having to sit in the back of the kingdom halls when they go to meetings.. so, what would happen if a new bible study person went to the kingdom hall for sunday meeting, (or whatever) and sat in the back of the hall, and talked to the shunned j.w.'s?

  also, are there always shunned j.w.

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  Happy Guy :)

  There are different levels of shunning. The one most often referred to here (and other places) refers to Disfellowshipped (or Df'd) persons. You will likely not find them in the Kingdom hall. I have even heard of some Disfellowshipped persons attending a meeting in defiance only to have the Police called on them.

  If you are seeing persons who are visibly and deliberately segregated at a meeting it is more likely that they are being disciplined through a labeling known as reprooving (a reproof). It can come in the form of a "Private" one: where the elders have made this decision but the congregation is kept in the dark and the disciplined person is expected to segregate themselves; or, it can come in the form a of a "Public" one where everyone in the congregation is advised and they may take it upon themselves to participate in the segregation. Either way contact is minimized.

  I suppose in a sense this is like a type of shunning but it certainly is not the variety of shunning which occurs when someone is Disfellowshipped. Sunning which occurs to Disfellowshipped persons is extreme, often cruel and heartless and likely would not see that individual anywhere near a Kingdom hall.

  I have heard of Disfellowshipped individuals attempting to re-instate themselves (with permission from the elders of course) attending and being segregated much like an individual being reprooved.
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  40

  UPDATE: Protest Rally for TUESDAY , October 19 at the Queen's Bench

  by Dogpatch in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is an updated announcement from lawrence hughes:

  the court hearing has been moved over one day to tuesday morning, october 19. the protest rally will start at 11:00am.

  i figure the protest will end at about 1:00pm.

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  Happy Guy :)

  I can't speak for others fleaman only myself: I can tell you that you did not offend or upset me. You have been polite and respectful and have simply shared your perspective. Your perspective is not surprising to me as you were not exposed to these types of experiences in your involvement with the JWs.

  My father had exactly the same response as you, only involving a different religion. He was raised Catholic. He was even educated in high school by Jesuits. He only had good experiences with his religion and in life it gave him a moral standard to follow. Throughout his adult life he was a good Catholic attending church and being involved in Catholic community charities. By the time he reached his 60s he had lived a good honest life and had no negative personal experiences with his religion. When scandals started to emerge in Canada and the U.S. at first he was in shock and disbelief because it was contrary to everything he saw and experienced. Every year that passed had new or additional potential scandals emerging. Finally the scandals reached a critical mass where he was finally ready to accept the truth of these scandals. It was a major realization for him and very sad indeed. It angered him as well. He is livid at the church for having any participation in the abuses which occurred and has not attended church (except for special events like marriage and funeral). He even questioned his belief in God but has resolved that issue since.

  I see your situation as similar to his to one extent. If you have only had very good experiences how could something so horrible like this happen. This is a problem anywhere with abuse or sexual abuse. One thing I have found often grounds me when my emotions kick in is statistics. In the case of sexual abuse we know from a statistical perspective that it can and will occur across "all socio-economic lines". Thus JWs fall into that category. To think they would be exempt from "all socio-economic lines" would be to fool ourselves (inspite of what some JWs would have us believe). Now let's say for argument's sake that your congregation was abuse free. Well the stats tell us that somewhere else at other congregations it was and is happening.

  By the preceeding comments in no way am I trying to convince you of anything nor am I suggesting that you aren't already aware of some of these points. Clearly this subject is unsettling for you from a disbelief point of view and hopefully my comments will give you a different perspective that is usefull to you. The fact that inspite of your disbelief you have made efforts to participate in this thread and engage others with a mind that is not cemented shut speaks for your character in my opinion.
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  52

  Is Imperfection the same as Sin?

  by jgnat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  lately i have made some pretty bold statements about the value of dialogue.

  so i thought i would put it in to practice.

  i've picked this topic, one i have not studied out thoroughly.

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  Happy Guy :)

  jgnat,

  I'm with Happy Guy on this one. Your question is much like what a poster said already..... the "chicken or the egg" question........ Until the day that I die I will not know, for sure, the answer to that question,.....

  I just wanted to point out that I think you have me confused with under74 who made the "chicken and the egg comment".
  

  I am actually quite clear on this subject. I was taught by the JWs that Adam was created perfect and immortal and that when he sinned he then became imperfect and mortal (by the act of the sin itself). I disagree with this scenario as it defies rational thinking in so far as: If he was created "perfect" he would be incapable of making bad decisions (sin) even if he had the "free will" to do so. Now to clarify, there are many other things in the bible which I think defies rationality or common sense.

  As far as the last question about imperfection leading to sin I never answered that one but I will now: My logical processes lead me to deduce that if one was already imperfect then the door is certainly open to making bad/wrong decisions or breaching moral laws (sins).